313 Comments

Remember woj-lebron >>> miami heat?

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Hmm?

Miami Heat Receive: Damian Lillard

Portland Trail Blazers Receive: RJ Barrett, Caleb Martin, Nikola Jovic, 2028 First-Round Pick (MIA), 2030 First-Round Pick (MIA)

New York Knicks Receive: Tyler Herro

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million things can happen hmmm

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Portland fans should boycott the team until the owner sells and the new owner brings in a new GM who knows how to create a winning culture. Who TF wants to play in Portland under the current incompetent regime? With all due respect.

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Blazers about to be busy deciding to see if they want to match what Mavs offer for Thybulle.

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Portland will want to convert it to a sign and trade where they get Doncic, 5 future firsts, and Mark Cuban’s seat on Shark Tank!

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Every one of these trade scenarios suck...immensely. Gut the team, Portland owns our draft picks and Brooklyn dumps Simmons and comes out ahead. FTS! That dog won't hunt! https://sircharlesincharge.com/2023/07/05/nba-trade-rumors-bold-deals-heat-lillard/?utm_campaign=FanSided+Daily&utm_source=FanSided+Daily&utm_medium=email&sc=e0273490fd355e2c28bdb25751d41af65a4dd80936ff00a80be9866c97887955

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Agree 1000%!! I am really sick and tired of these proposals where the Heat ‘have to’ give up like 5 players (including our best young players) and at least 3 first round picks (plus swaps) to get Lillard. I hope Riley refuses to accept such rancid bait.

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I’m starting to understand the odd pushing by Woj that “so many teams” are in the sweepstakes.

The Blazers assistant GM was basically a student of Woj as a draft analyst. It’s likely Portland is pushing a media narrative through Woj to try and build leverage.

Most media outlets outside of ESPN, has basically said Dame is going to Miami without any question.

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Woj has become nothing more than a sports media corporate hack.

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I feel so sorry for Portland fans. Dame is gone, is gone , is gone. And now they have to wait for 4 or 5 years for the rebuild to mature.

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Blazers undervalued Lillard's worth by wanting him to waste the rest of his career mentoring toddlers. Now that he wants out completely, they are now telling the Heat and the rest of the NBA how extremely valuable and indispensable Lillard is to the Blazers. If I were any of those toddlers, I will be looking for an exit to a much more responsible organization once I can walk because they will do the same to you.

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From what I'm understanding the complexion of Ben Simmons may be the key or hold up for any trade to occur especially if Brooklyn is involved. Not sure why Portland or any team not want him. Even if he checks-out and you tell him to stay away from the team, his contract is a massive expiring deal for next season which is enticing for a rebuilding team especially if Brooklyn will throw in picks to off load that contract.

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If we're sending Herro to BK they better be ponying up the picks, and we get to keep Caleb and one of JJJ and Jokic

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I think we would have to include Martin just so we can keep JJJ or jovic....sadly.

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I see it as a two step. Miami trades Herro to Brooklyn for Simmons and 3 first round picks.

Miami then sends Simmons to Portland with those 3 picks, two of our own, and another player.

I suspect at that point Portland would prefer a younger player, so it's probably Jovic*

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I hope it plays out close to that scenario, but idk if it will because I went on nets blog and half of them want to keep Simmons because his trade value is low ,and they seem to think that he will turn back to the all nba version, or close to that when he's healthy again for some reason. On the other lesser half of them want to trade him, although I agree that we should get 3 picks back to take on his contract, they believe it would be stupid for them to even give up 2 draft picks to help us. So just like trailblazers thinking Simmons is as good herro, the nets think there Simmons can still has potential to get back to the 2019 version of him. So it's just a waiting game, hopefully another team besides the nets step in because it's gonna be awhile before anything gets done.

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Remember, no deranged fan has any input on team negotiations. What they may think means nothing, nada, zilch, when it comes down to it. Sorry.

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I certainly agree with you, but some of these gm's are just as deranged as fans to an extent because why else would that gobert pull in a haul equal or greater to both kd and Mitchell....but anyways they're just fans like you said, so I digress.

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do we have another super ic?

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I think one could argue him playing in Portland might be a great, non-pressure filled location for him to find his confidence again. I think on the Heat when they are trying to win a title could be a disaster. Yes, I trust Spo & Co, but this one could be a tough nut to crack in this specific situation.

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ben got paid hes good.

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On July 1, HoopsHype issued an unbiased list of the trade value of each player by position - centers, pf, sf, sg, pg.

In the sg list, Herro was listed 9th (Booker was #1). Herro was listed higher than:

LaVine, Murray, Jalen Williams, Sharpe, Simons, Poole, White, Quickly, and others.

In 2019 re-drafts:

Hoopshype had Herro #4.

Bleacher Report #5.

Fansided #5.

NBC #6.

NBA 2K23 #4.

The point being, as HeavyHeater more eloquently wrote previously, this baloney about Herro not being a valuable player is, just that, baloney. It’s not one respected source that says that, but many.

A perfect player? No. A valuable player? Yes.

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I would argue given some of the contracts recently doled out, Herro's value should be increasing, not decreasing.

Fred VanVleet - 19.3 PPG, 39.3FG%, 34.2 3pt%, 7.2 APG, 4.1 RPG - Avg salary 42.8

Desmond Bane - 21.5 PPG, 47.9FG%, 40.8 3pt%, 4.0 APG, 5.0 RPG - 41.4 AVG salary extension

Tyler Herro - 20.1 PPG, 43.9FG%, 37.8 3pt%, 4,.2 APG, 5.1 RPG - 30.0 Avg extension.

Herro is also younger than both of them. So $11-12M less per year, are those two players $11M better? Can Herro not grow more than two players 1.5 to 6 years his elder? Herro may be a defensive liability, but I'm shocked at how much folks want to hate on him, when I see these contracts thrown out. Also say Portland really wanted Maxey - do you think Maxey is only getting $30M? He's going to be asking for $50 like LaMelo, Anthony Edwards, etc.

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Blazers argument is that they have multiple players already in that position, which to me is a lame excuse to scuttle Dame's request or make it harder him to exit from Blazers to Miami.

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They had a plethora of guards when they wasted their #3 pick on another one. So there's that.

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For the Heat to acquire Dame, a 3rd team needs to be brought in, which complicates things. Heat just have nothing to offer beyond Bam and Butler. How many fans think Dame pivots and the Celt’s and Nets go to the top of his list? Could the knicks be a sleeper?

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Throw away that thought right there. It's Heat or burst. Dame should sit it out if Blazers won't play ball.

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dame for jalen brown.dame for julius randle.

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I don't think the Celtics have a chance. If it's not Brooklyn, I'm guessing it's Utah or OKC for a bunch of rookies and future picks that turn into non-lottery picks but make the Blazers feel good about themselves.

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Zero chance okc or the jazz take on dames massive contract. Plus both teams are not competing for a championship and have competent backcourts.

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So did Portland, before Jody Allen wasted a #3 pick on another PG, rather than using it to acquire/trade for an all-star frontcourt player. She did that intentionally to get Dame to request/demand a trade, thinking she would get a haul like Utah did for Gobert and Mitchell. Instead, it blew up in her face. Allen f'd the whole thing up, not Dame or Miami. Portland fans have a right to be pissed...at the owner!

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Well, every article I read about the Nets is that they want to take Herro and be part of a 3-team swap. Which leads all roads back to Miami

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I kinda want that for Herro. I think he makes sense as a 1a/1b

/1c primary playmaker with Dinwiddie and Bridges.

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The longer this drags out, the more likely Lillard will resort to getting dirty with Portland's front office. They started this shit. However they misjudged how Dame would react to his replacements being drafted. I hope it gets real dirty.

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it's only been a few days. I'm expecting the next week or two will involve Pat and Andy working with other teams to get the Blazers what they want. But at some point, the Heat will have put together the best offer they can, and will offer the Blazers a "take it or leave it". After watching the almost-trade with Jimmy Butler and Minnesota go down, I'm sure the Heat are willing to walk away if they feel like the Blazers aren't operating in good faith

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I think it’s going to be the other way around - if the heat aren’t operating in good faith. League may even need to investigate the Heat front office for player tampering.

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Cornell77 knew you are here for mischief.

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What in the world suggests the Heat isn’t operating in good faith? Because the offer doesn’t work for Portland? In a situation like this, the team with an increasingly disgruntled player is not going to get great value. So they need to try to get fair value.

Lillard wants out. He insists he wants to only play for the Heat. He wants to play for a contender. Hopefully, they get a third team to help facilitate the trade and everyone gets assets they can be happy with.

The reality is that the Heat really want Lillard, but obviously they are not desperate. Three ECFs in the last 4 years should make that clear.

The Trailblazers on the other hand, get more desperate each passing day.

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lol. oh no, what if they lose a second round pick!

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Stop your whining. When dame ends up not in heat uni, then you can start sobbing.

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oh no, what if the Heat have to run it back with the team that's been best in the East for the past four years!

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HFL is on the line with Pat as Bol Bol was released ;)

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manute would look down at the joker

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Until Jovic went all Markief on him. Manute would fold up like a cheap suit.

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wait a minute,manute cheap shotted jokic down goes joker in less than a manute minute

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Finally, someone who can stand up to Jokic.

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I haven't this excited for a HHH commenter since Josh Jackson became available

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Legend

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Blazers fan here. The Heat need to actually act like they want Lillard. Herro, Robinson, and two firsts for a hall of gamer coming off his best statistical year is pathetic. I would not take Herro or Robinson for free. Their contracts are awful and both are so bad on defense that they can’t be starters.

The Blazers are rebuilding, they are in no rush to trade Lillard. The Heat are the team in win now mode. Riley needs to find another team to send Herro and Robinson to and include Jovic and JJJ in the deal or this will drag out for a long time.

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Dude. It's not Miami who is screwing the team and the fans, it's your owner. She should sell the team to someone who actually wants to win. If Sacramento, Memphis, OKC and other small market owners can rebuild and turn their teams around, so can Portland...just not with Allen and Cronin at the helm. To quote the The Joker: "This town needs an enema."

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Gotta love delusional Blazer fans.

Your front office holds no real leverage. Dame will force your pathetic GM to pull the trigger even if that includes 3-4 teams. Herro, Robinson and a few draft picks are all that's on the table. Lillard isn't a mid 20 year old. Don't like it? Tough shit. Beat it.

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Dame is still under contract to portland. He may have to sit out if Portland can’t find a fair deal. Unless of course he has a change of heart and wants to remain a blazer. There are 28 other teams in the league. Portland has options regarding dame; the Heat do not.

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they dont want ty if they wanted ty deal would be done.again no defense injured alot volume shooter 43.9%.if ty doesnt get hurt we dont beat boston or milw.hed have to be a dame lillard scorer to be wanted by anybody .

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Same bullshit. Brunson is injured a lot. And Maxey. Of course, Embiid. And Jaylen Brown. And Caleb. Going by YOUR standards over the past 3-4 years, average number of games played, all the above would be true. But you don’t perceive them the same way because you don’t have this ridiculous, irrational hatred of them like you do Herro.

Trying to assert what is absolutely impossible to prove is pure supposition. There is no way to assume what the Heat would have achieved if Herro was healthy. You already admitted that we would’ve done better in the finals with him. There is nothing to suggest we would not have achieved the same success with him. This is commonly referred to as the unknown. It’s opinion and you’re entitled to it. But it’s not fact.

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He got hurt diving for a loose ball...not pulling a groin at a strip club. Jus sayin...

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stupidest dive for the ball had no shot at it.dum ass play worked out we made it to finals

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Dude, no organization/gm/coach/player is perfect and neither are any of us. Sometimes I can't tell you from a troll. Your love/hate hot/cold comments are disturbing. I agree Herro is primarilly a one-way player. But, he has the athletic ability to improve, just as Devin Booker has over his career. Lillard on the other hand plays no defense at all, yet I haven't heard you say jack about that. What is that all about? He is the worst defensive PG in the league...even worse than Trae Young!!! Jus sayin. https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=top+point+guard+defensive+ratings+22-23

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Geez, Sunman. All I’m hearing in response to your question are … yep, crickets. I think HFL left the building after reading it.

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Stupid because you don’t like him. He gave it his all on the play. What’s dumb is…… oh well, no need to explain.

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I will make this short and simple for you to understand. Ask Spurs (Kawhi), Rockets (Harden),Sixers( Simmons), Nets (Kyrie) what happens to a team when a *star* player requests for a trade and the team decides to play hardball. It seems to me that these teams are still feeling the shockwave long after the saga. I promised to make it brief so I willl stop and leave the imagination of what will happen to your beloved Blazers soon.

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What is it with Blazers fans coming here to shit all over Miami's (current) players and thinking we'll greet them like wise sages? You're a visitor here, at least be polite about it.

Here's the thing, though: what Portland has right now is *NOT* a hall of famer. What Portland has is a disgruntled employee. Lillard's value *FOR PORTLAND* is a negative right now. You do not want to have Dame in the locker room doing his best "Ben Simmons with phone in pocket" impression when Scoot comes in for his first practice. First impressions are huge, and that will set the tone for Scoot's entire career. And it's one thing when "co-pilot" Ben Simmons does it on Joel Embiid's team, but your team *will not function* if your main guy doesn't want to be there.

So there is a rush to trade Lillard. And while his value for other teams may be that of a hall of famer, everyone knows that his value *FOR PORTLAND* is a lot less, so nobody, not a single team in the league, will be offering Lillard's "at auction" rate.

Put it another way: Let's say I buy a puppy. And, like, let's say I went to a certified breeder and got a *really expensive* high-pedigree puppy. Ease of math, let's say I paid $1,000. I And I take this puppy home, and the first thing it does is jump on my kitchen counter and knock over a bottle of wine I've been saving. Then it chews on the living room sofa. And it pees into my baseboard heater. And every day it does more damage, and there's nothing I can do.

The dog I have has a *value* of $1,000, but the longer I keep it, the more it costs me. If I wait until I find someone willing to pay $1,000 for it, I may be out *more than* $1,000 just in damages to my home.

Does it suck that your star player and your front office are in an open feud right now? Absolutely. It sucks to be a Blazers fan this offseason. You draft a fantastic player, and you don't get to enjoy it more than two days before the team is flung into chaos. I'm sorry.

But Tyler Herro is a *fantastic* player, and Duncan can be great, too. Honestly, the draft picks are probably going to be in the teens or twenties, so I get being bitter about those. And I'm not saying that a better deal from Portland's perspective can't or won't be reached. But right now, I guarantee you, you would rather have Laurel and Hardy in the Blazers locker room than Damien Lillard. And that's the bit that I think most nay-sayers are missing.

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I would love for the trade to drag into training camp so Dame can do his Jimmy impersonation and play with squad C against the starters

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this absolutely cannot drag into training camp for the Blazers. They are better off taking a lesser offer from another team than going into training camp with Scoot Henderson answering questions about Dame's feud with the front office.

That said, it seems like the Blazers front office is always finding a way to make a bad situation worse, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happens

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I would literally stop calling Portland. Funny how Woj can say Portland doesn't want Herro but we're still waiting for all these amazing offers to be leaked. You know Woj is gathering sweat on his brow ready to fire off a bomb with an offer Portland is receiving. Woj just going to end up sweaty and standing by lol

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I think it's funny that Portland keeps leaking that they want the Heat to involve a third team to take Herro, but the Heat aren't leaking who they're talking to about Herro

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I miss the old Woj reporter. ESPN has made him into an ‘analyst’ and is not the same guy.

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His rivalry with Shams has pushed him over the edge.

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Jody Allen and Joe Cronin remind me of the dynamic duo in Phoenix a few years ago, Robert Sarver and Ryan McDonough. Phoenix didn't turn things around until both were gone.

Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen died of cancer in 2018. Allen left instructions to sell all of his assets, which also includes the Seattle Seahawks of the NFL. To date, his orders have been ignored by his 65-year-old sibling, Jody Allen. Both her and Vulcan Inc., the corporation that manages all of the Allen family businesses have continued to maintain that there is no timetable for a sale.

“I work regularly with the GMs, presidents, and coaches on significant sports, business, and organization decisions and have final say on strategic moves such as key hires, trades, and player extensions.”- Jody Allen

https://en.as.com/nba/is-portland-trail-blazers-owner-jody-allen-a-problem-for-the-franchise-n/

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Absolutely, Blazers fans are screaming for Jody to sell the team to Phil Knight.

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Just a reminder. Miami gets Butler and Leonard (former Blazer ), for Whiteside, Richardson and first round pick.

Whales are cheap in south Florida.

Its obvious that Herro, 2 picks and a young player with fillers (Lowry, Robinson) is the most you can get for Lillard. Herro is fine player, I believe a future all star, and better then everything you have in Portland. Other team knows that.

But I have no idea, which player would be interesting for you from the third team ? Probably not Harden or Simmons. Any ideas?

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Nah. This is a buyer’s market for Dame— Portland doesn’t have a lot of leverage to negotiate a big pull for a disgruntled player who’s going to turn 33 in 2 weeks on a max contract.

Rumors are that Philly won’t even consider giving up Maxey, who’s about to turn the same age as Herro, plays guard, averaged only .2pts/gm more, with less assists/gm, and almost half as many rebounds.

Portland might not trade with Miami, but you’re delusional if you think you’re getting a superstar back for Dame. If that was out there, it would have already happened.

No, what you’re going to get back is an all-star level player, some parts & pieces, and probably a few draft picks — and you’ll like it. Gtfoh

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I would be fine with an all-star and pieces/picks, but Herro is a sixth man with a horrible contract (not an all-star). The Blazers have Henderson, Sharpe, and Simons. There is no place for Herro on the roster. Jovic and JJJ are you young players the Blazers should get in return for a Hall of Famer coming off his best statistical season who is also a fanatical health freak (opposite of Harden).

The Blazers got killed by the previous GM who didn’t trade CJ for Jimmy (Dame reportedly didn’t want CJ traded either) and drafted Zach Collins over Bam (tons of Blazers fans were calling for Bam in that draft). Also, free agents never go to Portland (not like Miami where they willingly take less money). Trading Dame for a terrible return is much more likely to get Cronin fired.

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Herro is a better player than Simons. You can look it up. The only difference is Simons is cheaper. So if you want to keep the less talented player to save a few bucks that is fine. But weird they overpay for Grant but aren't willing to spend on an actual better player when given the opportunity.

Question, who is the All Star that the Nets would send? Actually, which All Star's name has actually been mentioned from another team in all these leaks? Maybe I missed it but I haven't heard one.

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Herro contract is decent, what he fails to realize is that the cap will continue to rise, and in a couple years his contract will be a good deal. Nba teams will continue throwing out stupid money, that's why brooks getting 80 mill, and strus getting 63 mill. Herro and Simmons might be a lil identical offensively, but that's it... herro is a way better rebounder, and playmaker. His defensive isn't the best, but he can get better. His defensive bpm was -0.8, which was the same as Kyrie with the nets. Also If they keep Simmons, trailblazers will just end up paying an inferior version of herro the same amount of money or more.

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I am not even hoping for an all-star, mostly young forward and big man prospects and picks. JJJ and Jovic are right there for the Heat to use. Maybe Herro could go to the Jazz and the Blazers could get Taylor Hendricks. Nic Claxton is a big man the Blazers would love to get. Some Blazers fans are willing to take a flyer on Simmons if they get Claxton and picks since they need big men and defense so badly. Jaylen Brown is a very slim possibility (an actual all-star).

Simons and Herro and very similar level players but I (and most Blazers fans) prefer Simons because he is so athletic (6’3 Dunk Champs are pretty rare).

Overpaying Grant is exactly Portland’s problem, they will never get a free agent at that price range so they need to overpay to keep players and hopefully be able to trade them.

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you're just throwing out teams here. why would the jazz give hendricks for hero? they have a better one in clarkson on a much cheaper contract. truth is blazers are cornered in this situation and will be beggars to get out of this mess.

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I appreciate hearing your point of view from the other side. I think we both agree that trading Dame to us and getting some draft picks and maybe Herro or Caleb and maybe Jovic or Jaquez would be about the best outcome as you can't get full value because Dame wants to come here and for good reason. Playing with Jimmy and Bam, no matter what the rest of the Heat looks like, will give you a great chance at a ring, not a sure thing, but a great chance. And if you don't want Herro, and rightly so due to your rosters makeup, then take Caleb (who isnt as good but has a better contract). But, its time to end this as its pretty clear neither team has any other better options at this time. .

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Also, I wouldn't want Robinson either, but only because of his contract. He is actually a valuable asset otherwise.

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We heard oh the Celtics and the Nets and the Jazz and the Clippers want to get in the mix for Dame but haven't heard a single name from those teams. And Philly said no way Maxey is on the table, who I personally think is close to being overrated.

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Money quote: "Portland doesn’t have a lot of leverage to negotiate a big pull for a disgruntled player who’s going to turn 33 in 2 weeks on a max contract."

What Portland fans and all these talking heads trying to steer Dame somewhere else are forgetting, Portland wants to get off that Dame contract, and make no mistake, it's a whopper. So a team is getting a star but in about 2-3 years that contract is going to be John Wall bad. That absolutely has to be considered by the team trading for Dame. Plus, as you mentioned, you never get back equal value. Just because the Timberwolves GM was drunk when trading for Gobert doesn't mean every other GM trades when hammered.

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The contract was the very first thing that made me wonder what his value around the league would be.

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Sounds perfectly fine to me. Keep Dame. It's not the Heat's fault that GM is awful at his job when his star player asks to be listened to after 11 years of his full commitment. I'm sure Cronin will be sought after by players in the FA market, but mostly for shelling out that insane amount of money for Grant and not because he's making it some destination for players. Good luck in the west!

(nobody has any real idea what has been offered other than Herro)

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Honestly, I'd trade Caleb if it means keeping jovic and Jaime. They're both on rookie scale contracts and I could see both playing their way into starting roles very soon. I would be sad to see both or even one of them go.

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The Blazers have made a deal! They signed the #43 pick to a contract. Boom! No doubt Dame is bound to return to Portland now. Crazy end to this saga lol ;)

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