Everyone reports consistently says he will fit into the Heat culture but needs to improve on his foot work and shooting. Speedy footwork and above average shooting are those not the basic requirements for small ball, which he is lacking.
Footwork isn't light speed but bro has moves in the highlights from march. He pushes the pace in transition, can shoot over guards, and dance and bump with bigs. He seems like a great fit at strus' current role (recency bias has kinda killed my desire to see strus take 5 3s a night). I think this was a great pick for 18
Every player is coming into the league flawed. Even Big Vic is too thin and will get pushed around in the paint. Scoot can't shoot. All of these guys need to get better if they want to succeed in the NBA.
I always think that in the draft, and especially once you go outside the top-5, you're just looking for a player that will work hard to get better. It doesn't matter how talented you are if you don't have to work ethic (cough, Beasley, cough). Guys like Jimmy Butler or Jokic go late in the draft because they're not NBA ready, but the most important skill is having the work ethic to get better.
Of course, there are a handful of guys like LeBron and D-Wade that have the rare combination of talent and work ethic. But those guys are all-time greats. Unless you expected Pat to pick a no-brainer all-time great with the #18 pick, these are the types of trade-offs you have to make
I’ve seen reports that his footwork is actually very good for a young player. He has a good shot fake and scores inside the arc in a variety of ways. Defends well. Needs to work on his 3p shooting, which seems doable.
It does look like Lillard is going to hit the market. It may take some time and waiting may lessen our other choices and there is no guarantee someone else doesnt outbid us. But, keep hope alive.
yes, the Heat have been contenders for the past 4 years. And they'll be contenders next year regardless of whether they make a Dame trade.
I'm saying that a core of Bam,Bulter,Dame will be contenders for the next 2-5 years. At that point Dame & Butler will age out, and the Heat might have a couple down years before they are contenders again.
It also seems they added a few nice summer league players. Peterson, Funk, Gardner. Heat definitely have cornered the market on tall white guys who can shoot the three 😀. They may stick on g league or 2-way contracts.
Dude! Ever heard of Pandora's Box? I think you just opened it. Just to clarify for all, Jaques is a Chicano, as I am. If you decide to discuss Mexican-Americans, please keep it positive. Thank you.
Race and racism are very sensitive subjects in the U.S. these days. It doesn't take much to set people off. Labeling people as this or that bothers me...especially when there are folks who make assumptions about race/ethnicity without doing their homework. Check some of the comments out below and maybe you'll get my drift.
I did and it did make me regret making what I considered a lighthearted joke. We’ve read hundreds of each other’s comments. I know you’re a reasonable person. I hope you know, or at least perceive, the same about me.
I understand your intent. I did not mean to imply you were were trying to stir shit up. Unfortunately, we no longer have a sarcasm font so some folks take it the wrong way. No problem RC. I'm just glad you are now aware. On the other hand, If you want to talk politics and religion, I'm all ears.
Oh yeah, politics and religion. I’ll do that right after speaking to my gal. She just asked me if she looks a little heavy in that new outfit 😬😬😬😬😬 🤪🤪🤪
White, Brown, Black , Yellow or Green (uranusian), I don't mind. As long as you come to play hard and shoot the ball well every game, it is fine with me.
That’s the thing. They can’t do that(strus) this year…..herro and Duncan last year, Cody zeller this year, Kevin love (whom many want back) this year. Mia has 1 too many and they are all 1 way non athletic play no defense and not even good at what they are here for players dgaf how mad y’all get
Thanks for you courage and sincerity. This is an open site where honest opinion should be allowed to circulate as long as it doesn't become offnsive. I apologize also to anyone I have offended by bringing this stuff up. The reason I am looking at this is to understand the direction our GM sems to be going. I thought the pickups of Love and particularly Zeller at the buyout, to shore up our center position, was bizzare. They were both great players but washed up. The last two drafts and then the nondrafted list showed a tendency that is hard to overlook.
Being an NBA player is the most difficut job to get in sports. There re only 360 spots to cull from multimillions from all around the world. It is an egailtarian process based on talent alone. There are few humans, black or white, good enough to get there. Even if you do, most rotations go eight or nine deep. There are cummulatively, about 80 black guys who are NBA players but are not good enough to see the court except in a blowout. The biggst limiting factor is the need to be able to score and play defense, the two way player thing.
Since there are only 8-9 spot on a team, there is no sport where our player acquisiion techniques matter more. It is crucial to use every chance to improve your teams talent level as much as possible. Three good players and a lot of chaff can be a champion. Thats why most teams make their selections in the draft very carefully as they know its of extreme importance to not waste a pick.
I am just trying to understand our GM. I thik its fair to say that if Jovic and Jaquez work out it will be because Riley went a different route, saw something different, than most GM 's would go.
If all efforts at cultural diversity and sensitivity fail...just fall back on the "good ol reliable" dgaf. I get it. Seems to have worked very well up until now...especially in FLorida. Jus sayin...with all due respect.
Yes, Pat recently has developed an affinity for Caucasians. Even his nondraftees are 50% of the white persuasion. I am wondering if he thinks that there is a devaluing of white players that makes scooping them up in the late stages of the first round a potential windfall. I don't ascribe to this formula, but it almost seems like Pat does. And its got to be noticeable to rest of the league as the pattern is now fairly discernable. .
We did that with our 2022 pick. I make no such claim. Players can be valuabe and win in many ways. I noticed that the Heat beat the Knicks in the playoffs, which belies what you assume. I'm just trying to figure Riley out..
It may very well be a coincidence. But the percentages are interesting. In the last two years, 8 white guys drafted out of 60. That is 13.3%. And we had two of two. That is statistically significant.
Hfl- I just went thru the rosters and it is a short list. There are, like you say, far more impactful foreign white players. I would add Kispert, Plumlee, G. Allen and Brook Lopez to your list of the better American ones.
Brook Lopez is 1/2 half caucasian and 1/2 African-Cuban so if he is white, so are/were Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Al Horford, Kobe Bryant, Devin Booker, Zac Levine, Trae Young, Tyrese Haliburton, Jason Tatum, Aaron Gordon, Michael Porter,Jr., Kyle Kuzma, Blake Griffin and a shitload of other biracial players. Jus sayin.
Might as well add Hauser, Pritchard, and Kornet, to name a few. But what does it matter what the background of a player is? I’m sorry I made a little joke about it. If you’re capable of contributing to the success of your team, then you deserve to be n the NBA.
Yes. Look at the undrafted players too. It was when I saw that list (50%- totally out of proportion with players available) that I thought if we had a chance to address this a little it would be appropriate. When a fellow poster made mention of it I took a deep breath and waded in. Everyone else noticed too but it is third rail discussion until you can't not see the elephant in the room. I just am trying to understand.
I'm really getting a kick out of all these comment complaining that Pat has lost his touch. While they haven't won a championship, this has been the most consistently successful team in the NBA over the past four years. They won the East like three weeks ago!
I think the thing a lot of people here don't understand is that bad teams win the offseason
Different folks. Different strokes. Fans will be fans. Been saying that since the bubble run. We all don't have the same "love" for our team but one thing's for sure is we want them to succeed. And we just have different perspectives abt "success" and of course our beloved Pat. Respect to all. Just don't blow expletives here or....or... I'll tell my grandma 😉
Interestingly he’s getting viewed as a slow unathletic player. His vertical leap was 39 inches which was the 6th highest in combine. I think he likes to play at a slow pace.
The best things I like about Jaquez is that he scores after rugged, hard contact and he seems to have a nice array of moves that help him get to the basket.. Those skills are an avenue that could help him succeed in the nba.
He's an NBA ready, tough nosed SG/SF. He is a tough guy/gym rat who works hard. He'll fit right in.
Note: Although he was a career 32.8% 3-point shooter at UCLA, he shot 39.4% from 3's in his sophomore year. He has potential to be an excellent rotation player.
Honestly he's a mixed bag for me, I don't get miami fascination for small ball 4's in the range of 6'5 -6'7 , but I can't deny the success we've had with that recipe from Jae, p.j, and even Martin in the Boston series. As long as they have girth, and weight to bang in the post I guess. But anyways he won't get many minutes due to our log jam, unless we're dealing with major injuries or we blowing teams out, so he can get garbage time minutes.He might also be a trade asset for dame .I may not agree with a few of pats moves, but he is the godfather for a reason, and I'm just a fan. IN RILEY WE TRUST. On another note we can add Barnes, Grant, and the magic, pistons, and hornets bigs that they seem to be hoarding to our free agency pf/center list. Also for those clamoring that we need a big to stop jokic then I got news for you....NO ONE CAN STOP THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD.
Ok, since that's the case we will need to offload 1 or 2 of either duncan,Lowry, or oladipo. Also herro if we plan on getting Lillard. I'm not too worried about the pg position because that will work itself out eventually in the form of the Lillard hopefully... if not come back to me in a week. But if we can manage to get a solid 3 and D pf/center with good rebounding to help out bam I will be happy with that outcome. Either way I trust Riley to get it done if we expect to contend for more championships.
By drafting Jaques, Miami found an NBA ready rotation replacement for Strus.
If Miami had not gambled on Oladipo, Lowry and Robinson, they could have gone out on the free agent market or traded for help for Bam and Butler. Instead, in order to stay competitive while filling out the roster without paying the luxury tax, Miami has been forced to find two non-drafted/G League players for every bad contract. Thus far, they have been able to do that.
The team needs to get rid of at least two of those three contracts and stop gambling on washed up and flash in the pan players again. I would love to see the team keep Herro and find a way to bring in a good PG and PF/C. If they can, they may stay competitive. If not, 2023-2024 may be a repeat of the 2022-2023 regular season, or worse, with a very short postseason run (if one at all).
u look at the track record of every gm they have more misses than hits.if u hit on a dwade or curry etc mistakes are covered up.jimmy doesnt cover pats mistakes like dwade did.cant argue with pats track record 30 why dont u become a pistons fan or knicks fan see how great their gm does
I would argue Butler is doing things Wade never did. Wade never made the ECF without a Shaq or the big 3 era. Butler has now done it 3 times with what the league looks at as cast offs
So true. And that is the source of my chagrin today. Maybe I became too worshipful at the Jimmy altar, but I think we have the greatest player we ever had right now because of how far he carried us with Bam and the G leaguers. That man is Jimmy Buckets. The good ole days are now! And, having a player of Jimmy's rare will to win is an honor and carries a responsibility to support him.
Instead of improving on deficiencies, Miami leadership seems to lean into them. At times abused due to limited sized or just simply out not able to match up athletically and inconsistent shooters, Miami drafts a limited athletic ability, undersized power forward, with limited shooting range, but good handles.
I get position less basketball, but as a fan I would rather see them use these picks on high-upside or filling needs. This pick seemingly just brought in more of the same. I am disappointed. Time will tell, Pat's hit some picks, and missed some picks.
I also fail to understand how they plan to use him, with all the reports that he can play immediately. You can't have 3 players occupying the same space on offense. Bam/Jimmy and now Jaime all appear to want to occupy the same area on offense.
I don't disagree, but when you are picking 18th - 19th - 20th, you aren't often presented with players who are making immediate impact. You are that convinced that a 6'6 player, who played PF in college, limited length, athletic and shooting ability is having a role next year? Miami just going to hang out in the paint with an all undersized team?
Right now, as of the last two years, Pat sucks. He definitely can no longer do his job. Our success last year and the year before was from previous years' work. And just like we still stayed good for a couple years after he started making, lets just say, easily not the best moves on the chessboard, we are going to pay a heavy price for his poor choices. I mean, if he runs this back, we are going nowwhere and it will take years to recover.
We are at a crossroads, get something big accomplished, and I mean right now in the next ten days, or stop bowing down to someone who doesn't deserve it anymore. No excuses for him should be accepted. I don't know why someone who was great at something becomes terrible at it, but it is clearly happening. And one of the reasons appears to be his penchant for a certain type of player. I have already said more than I want to, but someone has to say it. Someone has to hold him accountable.
And, the Pat apoloists, I will be right here. But,
Being a GM is like playing poker. Sometimes you just have a bad hand. Sometimes someone else at the table screws things up so you can't use a good hand.
I think there have been a lot of trades lately that have made both teams worse. The Gobert trade immediately comes to mind, but also the Irving trade and the Beal trade. And when you're in that environment, with people mis-valuing certain assets, it spoils the trade market. People will want more than their assets are worth, or want your assets for less than they're worth.
Aside from the Duncan contract (which should have had a cornrows stipulation), Riley really hasn't *screwed up,* he's just failed to succeed. But I think a lot of his choices lately have been either "screw up or fail to succeed," with success being off the table.
Sometimes your best move, despite all appearances, is no move at all.
Ngl, heat fo has been mia for the kost part since summer of 2021. Some of that is rightfully on Pat. Whale hunting last summer was a real goofy MO when the roster had some clear holes, as everybody keeps pointing out. Been that way for 2 years+ now, with not much going into fixing it definitively.
Maybe Pat's past success at plucking stars out of thin air keeps him overestimating his chances. But what is undeniable is that the rest of the league knows what Pat wants to do, and they hate/fear this man so nobody wants to do business unless it's at some stupidly exorbitant price. Look at that bonkers ass beal trade.
Add to that the banged up crew with obvious holes. Last year was shot creation. This year it's size. Next year it might be a lack of water boys. It's tough to do a deal when nobody wants to work with you and they know what you want so you woulda gotten shafted anyway
When you have a Butler, and a lot of credit to Bam too, amazing things can happen that disguise deficiencies. Besides, just before this two year period of which I am being critical of, started, Pat was making his regular amount of hit or miss picks and his record was really good. It was then he got Caleb, Vincent, Strus, and VO, who would have been a great acquisition if not for injury. Only in the last two years is his record all miss.
i do respect your stand. and you can call me a Pat apologist if one definition is enjoying the playoff success we had in recent years. we can cry all we want but still the godfather will make us eat whatever he brings to the table. we can chew it, spit it out, whatever we want but he's gonna do what he thinks is best for the team for the organization. and i am thankful that he couldn't care less what we fans think but obviously lots of Heat fans are still enjoying this ride. i know i do. some don't. also i have no idea who'd replace him? is there anybody who will even come close? and holding him accountable? id say name a street in Miami after him when he finally steps down lol
I understand your point of view. Its based on a long period of success. Please note that I am only referring to the last two years.
I feel a lot like this situation has some similarities to the Derek Jeter Marlins. I watched as his reputation allowed him to avoid criticism he richly deserved over the Realmuto and Yelich trades. It finally became apparent that despite being a great player. Jeter had no clue as a GM. Now, a newcomer Ng replaced him and is doing a good job despite limited resources.
The analogy to this situation is that Riley's rep is shielding him from the criticism he deserves. I don't know why Pat went so off course but, like Jeter, he appears hung up on a certain type of player. Jeter thought great athletes automatically make great baseball players. Not sure why Riles picks the players he does, but they are a definite type and that may make other great players not want to come here.
It was Sherman who owned for the Yelich and Realmuto trades. Notice I didnt say Stanton, as Stanton, like Beal, had a clause that made him difficult to trade. And, Ozuna, I didn't mention because we got good value in that trade. But, even though Ozuna worked out, we got zilch back, zilch, for Yelich and Realmuto, two coveted all-stars. You and I could have done better than Jeter.
I wouldn't take a stand like this unless I was pretty sure. The last thing I want to do is be the non-optimistic one. I know we should all root for everything about our team. And I know some will call me on my love for the Heat. But, I see it clear now....there is a pattern of shoehorning a type of player onto the court that does not appear to be the best move available. Time will tell. There will be no faking it or sweeping the results under the rug if both Jovik and Jaquez don't work out. And, yes, the pickings are slimmer at 18, but as Jakob Dylan, son of Bob, said, "there's got to be something better than this."
I think it's fair to say that Pat has struggled for the last decade in terms of signing/re-signing players. Look at the big contracts he's handed out - how many do you think have lived up to the expectations/played at a level equivalent to their pay?
Dion Waiters
James Johnson
Kelly Olynyk
Duncan Robinson
Kyle Lowry
Hassan Whiteside
Tyler Johnson
Jimmy Butler
Bam Adebayo
Tyler Herro
I'm sure I've missed a few. He's also recently struck out when trying to land big fish. Durant during FA (was always a reach, because of some of the bad deals, but clearly chose elsewhere). Durant during trade. Mitchell. Beal. Etc.
The team is having success, and Pat made a brilliant move of trading for Butler. He also drafted at times well with Bam and Herro, and his track record with finding undrafted gems, is high, but I don't think it's as if he's moves are beyond reproach at this point.
It’s not just about signing/trading guys. It’s also about maneuvering out of bad deals to set up for success ala getting out of Waiters/Whiteside/Johnson/TJ Johnson deals.
I never said Pat's the worst GM. But I think folks here who refuse to question any decision, are wrong. Pat's track record isn't 100%. Fans can question if a move is right or wrong. But I guess not in 2qbn's world. Pat's right even when he's wrong eh? That Tyler Johnson move was great, because he later got out of it. Wow.
Your brilliant mind shining again. Joker has been a two time MVP and a Finals MVP and you think a team in the NBA is going to find someone who can guard him at 18? And let's say you found some specimen who might be able to, the chances are he truly would not be ready until like 3-4 years when Jimmy is like 40, man. Damn Anthony Davis can't guard him. Thanks for this amazing contribution.
The Heat beat Brunson. I don't care if he goes for 30 his team going for 10.
Noone can guard Jokic. LA is thinking of getting Draymont to team up with AD to try to stop him as they feel Jokic was the reason they got swept. Thats how difficult it is.
Howard is getting famous again for being mention as a Jokic stopper but the things is that's from 2020 and the nuggets are built different today.
The annoying thing about Jokic is he takes away your interior defense by pulling the defender like Davis and Embiid in the high post leaving the interior free for cutters and drives.One of the best way to counteract Nuggets offense is to have one physical player focus defending him while your best defender and rim protector is free to guard the paint from cutters and drives. Thats what the lakers did in 2020 with dwight howard on Jokic and Davis free to roam around to block/alter shots and what they tried to do this last playoff with rui hachimura but rui didnt have the physicality to keep up but it made the score closer. I believe sixers also did this strategy by making pj tucker guard jokic so that Embiid can roam in the paint.
Someone said Pat wants to go back to his Kentucky playing days. If you look at his recent player acquisitions, including the unsigned players, you can't help but notice a certain predllection. I hope the sun shines bright when he gets back to his old Kentucky home.
Everyone reports consistently says he will fit into the Heat culture but needs to improve on his foot work and shooting. Speedy footwork and above average shooting are those not the basic requirements for small ball, which he is lacking.
Footwork isn't light speed but bro has moves in the highlights from march. He pushes the pace in transition, can shoot over guards, and dance and bump with bigs. He seems like a great fit at strus' current role (recency bias has kinda killed my desire to see strus take 5 3s a night). I think this was a great pick for 18
Every player is coming into the league flawed. Even Big Vic is too thin and will get pushed around in the paint. Scoot can't shoot. All of these guys need to get better if they want to succeed in the NBA.
I always think that in the draft, and especially once you go outside the top-5, you're just looking for a player that will work hard to get better. It doesn't matter how talented you are if you don't have to work ethic (cough, Beasley, cough). Guys like Jimmy Butler or Jokic go late in the draft because they're not NBA ready, but the most important skill is having the work ethic to get better.
Of course, there are a handful of guys like LeBron and D-Wade that have the rare combination of talent and work ethic. But those guys are all-time greats. Unless you expected Pat to pick a no-brainer all-time great with the #18 pick, these are the types of trade-offs you have to make
I’ve seen reports that his footwork is actually very good for a young player. He has a good shot fake and scores inside the arc in a variety of ways. Defends well. Needs to work on his 3p shooting, which seems doable.
Plus, he has a very high BBIQ, unlike some of the players we saw on draft night and during the playoffs (Knicks in particular).
It does look like Lillard is going to hit the market. It may take some time and waiting may lessen our other choices and there is no guarantee someone else doesnt outbid us. But, keep hope alive.
I think it basically comes down to Miami or Brooklyn.
And if Lillard ends up on the Heat, we're looking at 2-5 years as legitimate title contenders
You mean *another* 2-5 years as legitimate title contenders, right? Didn't we just make the finals twice in the last four?
yes, the Heat have been contenders for the past 4 years. And they'll be contenders next year regardless of whether they make a Dame trade.
I'm saying that a core of Bam,Bulter,Dame will be contenders for the next 2-5 years. At that point Dame & Butler will age out, and the Heat might have a couple down years before they are contenders again.
It also seems they added a few nice summer league players. Peterson, Funk, Gardner. Heat definitely have cornered the market on tall white guys who can shoot the three 😀. They may stick on g league or 2-way contracts.
Dude! Ever heard of Pandora's Box? I think you just opened it. Just to clarify for all, Jaques is a Chicano, as I am. If you decide to discuss Mexican-Americans, please keep it positive. Thank you.
First of all, what I said about these players was positive. It was a joke and I don’t see anything inherently negative about exactly what I wrote.
Race and racism are very sensitive subjects in the U.S. these days. It doesn't take much to set people off. Labeling people as this or that bothers me...especially when there are folks who make assumptions about race/ethnicity without doing their homework. Check some of the comments out below and maybe you'll get my drift.
I did and it did make me regret making what I considered a lighthearted joke. We’ve read hundreds of each other’s comments. I know you’re a reasonable person. I hope you know, or at least perceive, the same about me.
I understand your intent. I did not mean to imply you were were trying to stir shit up. Unfortunately, we no longer have a sarcasm font so some folks take it the wrong way. No problem RC. I'm just glad you are now aware. On the other hand, If you want to talk politics and religion, I'm all ears.
GO HEAT!!!
Oh yeah, politics and religion. I’ll do that right after speaking to my gal. She just asked me if she looks a little heavy in that new outfit 😬😬😬😬😬 🤪🤪🤪
(Yes, we really could use the sarcasm font!)
White, Brown, Black , Yellow or Green (uranusian), I don't mind. As long as you come to play hard and shoot the ball well every game, it is fine with me.
That’s the thing. They can’t do that(strus) this year…..herro and Duncan last year, Cody zeller this year, Kevin love (whom many want back) this year. Mia has 1 too many and they are all 1 way non athletic play no defense and not even good at what they are here for players dgaf how mad y’all get
Thanks for you courage and sincerity. This is an open site where honest opinion should be allowed to circulate as long as it doesn't become offnsive. I apologize also to anyone I have offended by bringing this stuff up. The reason I am looking at this is to understand the direction our GM sems to be going. I thought the pickups of Love and particularly Zeller at the buyout, to shore up our center position, was bizzare. They were both great players but washed up. The last two drafts and then the nondrafted list showed a tendency that is hard to overlook.
Being an NBA player is the most difficut job to get in sports. There re only 360 spots to cull from multimillions from all around the world. It is an egailtarian process based on talent alone. There are few humans, black or white, good enough to get there. Even if you do, most rotations go eight or nine deep. There are cummulatively, about 80 black guys who are NBA players but are not good enough to see the court except in a blowout. The biggst limiting factor is the need to be able to score and play defense, the two way player thing.
Since there are only 8-9 spot on a team, there is no sport where our player acquisiion techniques matter more. It is crucial to use every chance to improve your teams talent level as much as possible. Three good players and a lot of chaff can be a champion. Thats why most teams make their selections in the draft very carefully as they know its of extreme importance to not waste a pick.
I am just trying to understand our GM. I thik its fair to say that if Jovic and Jaquez work out it will be because Riley went a different route, saw something different, than most GM 's would go.
"Mia has 1 too many [whites]..."
There are quotas? Who knew? I didn't get the memo.
As I said dgaf how mad y’all get.
If all efforts at cultural diversity and sensitivity fail...just fall back on the "good ol reliable" dgaf. I get it. Seems to have worked very well up until now...especially in FLorida. Jus sayin...with all due respect.
I don’t and Mia will never win with that many. Why do people get so mad at others opinions? Shit is pathetic
Yes, Pat recently has developed an affinity for Caucasians. Even his nondraftees are 50% of the white persuasion. I am wondering if he thinks that there is a devaluing of white players that makes scooping them up in the late stages of the first round a potential windfall. I don't ascribe to this formula, but it almost seems like Pat does. And its got to be noticeable to rest of the league as the pattern is now fairly discernable. .
agree 30. whos the best white american player in nba .unless your name ends in ic take a brother
We did that with our 2022 pick. I make no such claim. Players can be valuabe and win in many ways. I noticed that the Heat beat the Knicks in the playoffs, which belies what you assume. I'm just trying to figure Riley out..
I honestly think the scouting staff just looks for diamonds in the rough.
It may very well be a coincidence. But the percentages are interesting. In the last two years, 8 white guys drafted out of 60. That is 13.3%. And we had two of two. That is statistically significant.
whos on the all nba white american team.ty austin reaves hartenshtein hayward max and dunc ? pat has 3 out of 5
Hfl- I just went thru the rosters and it is a short list. There are, like you say, far more impactful foreign white players. I would add Kispert, Plumlee, G. Allen and Brook Lopez to your list of the better American ones.
Brook Lopez is 1/2 half caucasian and 1/2 African-Cuban so if he is white, so are/were Steph Curry, Klay Thompson, Al Horford, Kobe Bryant, Devin Booker, Zac Levine, Trae Young, Tyrese Haliburton, Jason Tatum, Aaron Gordon, Michael Porter,Jr., Kyle Kuzma, Blake Griffin and a shitload of other biracial players. Jus sayin.
Might as well add Hauser, Pritchard, and Kornet, to name a few. But what does it matter what the background of a player is? I’m sorry I made a little joke about it. If you’re capable of contributing to the success of your team, then you deserve to be n the NBA.
Yes. Look at the undrafted players too. It was when I saw that list (50%- totally out of proportion with players available) that I thought if we had a chance to address this a little it would be appropriate. When a fellow poster made mention of it I took a deep breath and waded in. Everyone else noticed too but it is third rail discussion until you can't not see the elephant in the room. I just am trying to understand.
I'm really getting a kick out of all these comment complaining that Pat has lost his touch. While they haven't won a championship, this has been the most consistently successful team in the NBA over the past four years. They won the East like three weeks ago!
I think the thing a lot of people here don't understand is that bad teams win the offseason
Different folks. Different strokes. Fans will be fans. Been saying that since the bubble run. We all don't have the same "love" for our team but one thing's for sure is we want them to succeed. And we just have different perspectives abt "success" and of course our beloved Pat. Respect to all. Just don't blow expletives here or....or... I'll tell my grandma 😉
Stop being so #*”!^¥ nice! Haha
Bwahaha! Need to be nice. My wife reads what I post anywhere lol
you have a good wife. My wife just makes fun of me for talking about Basketball on the Internet
Interestingly he’s getting viewed as a slow unathletic player. His vertical leap was 39 inches which was the 6th highest in combine. I think he likes to play at a slow pace.
The best things I like about Jaquez is that he scores after rugged, hard contact and he seems to have a nice array of moves that help him get to the basket.. Those skills are an avenue that could help him succeed in the nba.
seems like the type of dude that is down to practice in pads
He's an NBA ready, tough nosed SG/SF. He is a tough guy/gym rat who works hard. He'll fit right in.
Note: Although he was a career 32.8% 3-point shooter at UCLA, he shot 39.4% from 3's in his sophomore year. He has potential to be an excellent rotation player.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jaime-jaquezjr-1.html
Excellent point!!
Honestly he's a mixed bag for me, I don't get miami fascination for small ball 4's in the range of 6'5 -6'7 , but I can't deny the success we've had with that recipe from Jae, p.j, and even Martin in the Boston series. As long as they have girth, and weight to bang in the post I guess. But anyways he won't get many minutes due to our log jam, unless we're dealing with major injuries or we blowing teams out, so he can get garbage time minutes.He might also be a trade asset for dame .I may not agree with a few of pats moves, but he is the godfather for a reason, and I'm just a fan. IN RILEY WE TRUST. On another note we can add Barnes, Grant, and the magic, pistons, and hornets bigs that they seem to be hoarding to our free agency pf/center list. Also for those clamoring that we need a big to stop jokic then I got news for you....NO ONE CAN STOP THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD.
Right now Miami has no money to go FA shopping. This is one of the main reasons for drafting Heat Lifer Jaquez
Ok, since that's the case we will need to offload 1 or 2 of either duncan,Lowry, or oladipo. Also herro if we plan on getting Lillard. I'm not too worried about the pg position because that will work itself out eventually in the form of the Lillard hopefully... if not come back to me in a week. But if we can manage to get a solid 3 and D pf/center with good rebounding to help out bam I will be happy with that outcome. Either way I trust Riley to get it done if we expect to contend for more championships.
Keep your hands off Duncan.
I'll try... but it's hard since he rejuvenated a good amount of his trade/asset stock lol..sorry Emily 😈
Hahaha! Hi Ms. Emily! Sorry ive been putting Dunc on the trading machine always. And it works every time 😜
By drafting Jaques, Miami found an NBA ready rotation replacement for Strus.
If Miami had not gambled on Oladipo, Lowry and Robinson, they could have gone out on the free agent market or traded for help for Bam and Butler. Instead, in order to stay competitive while filling out the roster without paying the luxury tax, Miami has been forced to find two non-drafted/G League players for every bad contract. Thus far, they have been able to do that.
The team needs to get rid of at least two of those three contracts and stop gambling on washed up and flash in the pan players again. I would love to see the team keep Herro and find a way to bring in a good PG and PF/C. If they can, they may stay competitive. If not, 2023-2024 may be a repeat of the 2022-2023 regular season, or worse, with a very short postseason run (if one at all).
OK Pat, do your magic!
GO HEAT!!!
great post heat bro so true
lets take a look at pistons draft and free agents last 10-15 years.lets not not 1 good move
u look at the track record of every gm they have more misses than hits.if u hit on a dwade or curry etc mistakes are covered up.jimmy doesnt cover pats mistakes like dwade did.cant argue with pats track record 30 why dont u become a pistons fan or knicks fan see how great their gm does
Can't wait for 2023-24 season to start, when you watch a all 6'6 team and talk crap. I'm going to favorite this quote. LOL
"why dont u become a pistons fan or knicks fan see how great their gm does"
I would argue Butler is doing things Wade never did. Wade never made the ECF without a Shaq or the big 3 era. Butler has now done it 3 times with what the league looks at as cast offs
I'm not emotionally ready for this conversation.
Maybe we're all just underestimating Bam that much?
So true. And that is the source of my chagrin today. Maybe I became too worshipful at the Jimmy altar, but I think we have the greatest player we ever had right now because of how far he carried us with Bam and the G leaguers. That man is Jimmy Buckets. The good ole days are now! And, having a player of Jimmy's rare will to win is an honor and carries a responsibility to support him.
bad pt he beat dallas by himself.wades twice the player butler is
Um, did they not have Shaq and even Zo?
Instead of improving on deficiencies, Miami leadership seems to lean into them. At times abused due to limited sized or just simply out not able to match up athletically and inconsistent shooters, Miami drafts a limited athletic ability, undersized power forward, with limited shooting range, but good handles.
I get position less basketball, but as a fan I would rather see them use these picks on high-upside or filling needs. This pick seemingly just brought in more of the same. I am disappointed. Time will tell, Pat's hit some picks, and missed some picks.
I also fail to understand how they plan to use him, with all the reports that he can play immediately. You can't have 3 players occupying the same space on offense. Bam/Jimmy and now Jaime all appear to want to occupy the same area on offense.
Jovic was your high upside pick and good chance he still doesn't fully contribute this year. You know, while we're trying to win a ring.
I don't disagree, but when you are picking 18th - 19th - 20th, you aren't often presented with players who are making immediate impact. You are that convinced that a 6'6 player, who played PF in college, limited length, athletic and shooting ability is having a role next year? Miami just going to hang out in the paint with an all undersized team?
Yes. I think he can contribute. Regarding size, this isn't training camp. We don't know what the roster is going to look like
Right now, as of the last two years, Pat sucks. He definitely can no longer do his job. Our success last year and the year before was from previous years' work. And just like we still stayed good for a couple years after he started making, lets just say, easily not the best moves on the chessboard, we are going to pay a heavy price for his poor choices. I mean, if he runs this back, we are going nowwhere and it will take years to recover.
We are at a crossroads, get something big accomplished, and I mean right now in the next ten days, or stop bowing down to someone who doesn't deserve it anymore. No excuses for him should be accepted. I don't know why someone who was great at something becomes terrible at it, but it is clearly happening. And one of the reasons appears to be his penchant for a certain type of player. I have already said more than I want to, but someone has to say it. Someone has to hold him accountable.
And, the Pat apoloists, I will be right here. But,
Being a GM is like playing poker. Sometimes you just have a bad hand. Sometimes someone else at the table screws things up so you can't use a good hand.
I think there have been a lot of trades lately that have made both teams worse. The Gobert trade immediately comes to mind, but also the Irving trade and the Beal trade. And when you're in that environment, with people mis-valuing certain assets, it spoils the trade market. People will want more than their assets are worth, or want your assets for less than they're worth.
Aside from the Duncan contract (which should have had a cornrows stipulation), Riley really hasn't *screwed up,* he's just failed to succeed. But I think a lot of his choices lately have been either "screw up or fail to succeed," with success being off the table.
Sometimes your best move, despite all appearances, is no move at all.
Ngl, heat fo has been mia for the kost part since summer of 2021. Some of that is rightfully on Pat. Whale hunting last summer was a real goofy MO when the roster had some clear holes, as everybody keeps pointing out. Been that way for 2 years+ now, with not much going into fixing it definitively.
Maybe Pat's past success at plucking stars out of thin air keeps him overestimating his chances. But what is undeniable is that the rest of the league knows what Pat wants to do, and they hate/fear this man so nobody wants to do business unless it's at some stupidly exorbitant price. Look at that bonkers ass beal trade.
Add to that the banged up crew with obvious holes. Last year was shot creation. This year it's size. Next year it might be a lack of water boys. It's tough to do a deal when nobody wants to work with you and they know what you want so you woulda gotten shafted anyway
Thank you!!! Finally, somebody gets it, IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO. You can’t complete the trade you want without a trade partner. Thank you Belacqua!
made finals last year hello
When you have a Butler, and a lot of credit to Bam too, amazing things can happen that disguise deficiencies. Besides, just before this two year period of which I am being critical of, started, Pat was making his regular amount of hit or miss picks and his record was really good. It was then he got Caleb, Vincent, Strus, and VO, who would have been a great acquisition if not for injury. Only in the last two years is his record all miss.
i do respect your stand. and you can call me a Pat apologist if one definition is enjoying the playoff success we had in recent years. we can cry all we want but still the godfather will make us eat whatever he brings to the table. we can chew it, spit it out, whatever we want but he's gonna do what he thinks is best for the team for the organization. and i am thankful that he couldn't care less what we fans think but obviously lots of Heat fans are still enjoying this ride. i know i do. some don't. also i have no idea who'd replace him? is there anybody who will even come close? and holding him accountable? id say name a street in Miami after him when he finally steps down lol
I'm not actually serious about this suggestion, but maybe a part of me wishes I was serious: what if Pat retires next year and UD is the new GM?
i think if/when Pat retires, Zo is going to take over as the GM.
I would not be shocked if we start seeing UD sitting in the stands with those guys over the next couple years
You do have a point about getting a street in his name. No question, Pat would deserve it. I still stand by my comments.
Hey, maybe one of these years you guys will be correct. Sure, you'll ignore the years and years of being dead wrong, but that's no fun, right? ;)
I understand your point of view. Its based on a long period of success. Please note that I am only referring to the last two years.
I feel a lot like this situation has some similarities to the Derek Jeter Marlins. I watched as his reputation allowed him to avoid criticism he richly deserved over the Realmuto and Yelich trades. It finally became apparent that despite being a great player. Jeter had no clue as a GM. Now, a newcomer Ng replaced him and is doing a good job despite limited resources.
The analogy to this situation is that Riley's rep is shielding him from the criticism he deserves. I don't know why Pat went so off course but, like Jeter, he appears hung up on a certain type of player. Jeter thought great athletes automatically make great baseball players. Not sure why Riles picks the players he does, but they are a definite type and that may make other great players not want to come here.
uh loria couldnt afford players had to trade got back sht for yelich and jt though
It was Sherman who owned for the Yelich and Realmuto trades. Notice I didnt say Stanton, as Stanton, like Beal, had a clause that made him difficult to trade. And, Ozuna, I didn't mention because we got good value in that trade. But, even though Ozuna worked out, we got zilch back, zilch, for Yelich and Realmuto, two coveted all-stars. You and I could have done better than Jeter.
Lol - apparently he sucks for not getting every player that becomes available
I wouldn't take a stand like this unless I was pretty sure. The last thing I want to do is be the non-optimistic one. I know we should all root for everything about our team. And I know some will call me on my love for the Heat. But, I see it clear now....there is a pattern of shoehorning a type of player onto the court that does not appear to be the best move available. Time will tell. There will be no faking it or sweeping the results under the rug if both Jovik and Jaquez don't work out. And, yes, the pickings are slimmer at 18, but as Jakob Dylan, son of Bob, said, "there's got to be something better than this."
I think it's fair to say that Pat has struggled for the last decade in terms of signing/re-signing players. Look at the big contracts he's handed out - how many do you think have lived up to the expectations/played at a level equivalent to their pay?
Dion Waiters
James Johnson
Kelly Olynyk
Duncan Robinson
Kyle Lowry
Hassan Whiteside
Tyler Johnson
Jimmy Butler
Bam Adebayo
Tyler Herro
I'm sure I've missed a few. He's also recently struck out when trying to land big fish. Durant during FA (was always a reach, because of some of the bad deals, but clearly chose elsewhere). Durant during trade. Mitchell. Beal. Etc.
The team is having success, and Pat made a brilliant move of trading for Butler. He also drafted at times well with Bam and Herro, and his track record with finding undrafted gems, is high, but I don't think it's as if he's moves are beyond reproach at this point.
ok lets hire the pistons gm
It’s not just about signing/trading guys. It’s also about maneuvering out of bad deals to set up for success ala getting out of Waiters/Whiteside/Johnson/TJ Johnson deals.
Yeah because all other 29 GM's have never ever given a bad contract or made a questionable decision, like ever ever. ;)
I never said Pat's the worst GM. But I think folks here who refuse to question any decision, are wrong. Pat's track record isn't 100%. Fans can question if a move is right or wrong. But I guess not in 2qbn's world. Pat's right even when he's wrong eh? That Tyler Johnson move was great, because he later got out of it. Wow.
Mixed reviews, differing opinions. One constant is the Heat culture they see in him. Is that enough? We will soon find out. Go Heat!!
Jimmy Jack?
Luka Jack without the 3 ball haha
James Jack
can he guard joker can he guard brunson.my grade y draft a forward
Your brilliant mind shining again. Joker has been a two time MVP and a Finals MVP and you think a team in the NBA is going to find someone who can guard him at 18? And let's say you found some specimen who might be able to, the chances are he truly would not be ready until like 3-4 years when Jimmy is like 40, man. Damn Anthony Davis can't guard him. Thanks for this amazing contribution.
The Heat beat Brunson. I don't care if he goes for 30 his team going for 10.
brunson was about 40 every night.u have loads of forwards at least try to draft a guy that can look joker in the eye
Crazy how finally it was THIS draft where there are finally players who can guard him. What a time to be alive!
who can guard him on the heat.one guy but he'll prob never play again
Noone can guard Jokic. LA is thinking of getting Draymont to team up with AD to try to stop him as they feel Jokic was the reason they got swept. Thats how difficult it is.
Howard is getting famous again for being mention as a Jokic stopper but the things is that's from 2020 and the nuggets are built different today.
The annoying thing about Jokic is he takes away your interior defense by pulling the defender like Davis and Embiid in the high post leaving the interior free for cutters and drives.One of the best way to counteract Nuggets offense is to have one physical player focus defending him while your best defender and rim protector is free to guard the paint from cutters and drives. Thats what the lakers did in 2020 with dwight howard on Jokic and Davis free to roam around to block/alter shots and what they tried to do this last playoff with rui hachimura but rui didnt have the physicality to keep up but it made the score closer. I believe sixers also did this strategy by making pj tucker guard jokic so that Embiid can roam in the paint.
Someone said Pat wants to go back to his Kentucky playing days. If you look at his recent player acquisitions, including the unsigned players, you can't help but notice a certain predllection. I hope the sun shines bright when he gets back to his old Kentucky home.