108 Comments

Portland's Cronin needs to know that Kobe Bryant, Jalen Rose, Dale Davis, Karl Marlone were drafted overall 13th picks and did not start making their mark in the NBA until their 4th year and for some in their 5th year. Tyler Herro is on course to be that great.

Expand full comment

Here's one of the latest "pie in the sky" trade scenarios being discussed by Blazer fans. It must be a combination of Cronin's gaslighting and the wide variety of available hallucinagenics.

Raptors get: Damian Lillard, Nassir Little

Blazers get: Scottie Barnes, Gary Trent Jr., Chris Boucher, Thaddeus Young, Otto Porter Jr., Toronto’s unprotected first-round pick in 2028, and a pick swap in 2029

Expand full comment

lol. I think that one cam from The Ringer. Yes, I'm sure the same Raptors that didn't want to trade Scottie Barnes for Kevin Freaking Durant are now willing to trade Scottie Barnes plus picks for Damian Lillard.

I gotta admit, i was a little worried about trading a bunch of assets for a small guard in his 30's. But seeing how hard the Ringer is trying to stop this trade gives me confidence that this will be the final nail in the Celtics coffin.

Expand full comment

If all else fails, keep Herro and trade for a PG...or trade Herro for a PG...or trade expiring Lowry contract and pick(s) for a legitimate PG...or?

Just saw this trade proposal. Hmmm? It would leave:

Lillard, DRob, Butler, Bam, Nurkic,

JRich, KLove, Jaquez, T. Bryant, Highsmith, ORob, Cain, (plus three more players, e.g., Smith?, Bouyea?, Drew Peterson?, Nunn? Dragic?).

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/nba-trade-machine-a-3-team-damian-lillard-trade-that-actually-works/ar-AA1dOM3w?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=17c00353b3dd4150add57d8802b46179&ei=21

Expand full comment

Heat guaranteeing Highsmith contract for 2023-24 season.

Expand full comment

From Miami Herald’s Anthony Chiang’s mailbag (includes an interesting fact where, again, Herro has achieved something few other recent draftees have):

“ Tyler: Where do you think Tyler Herro fits best around the league? I’ve seen plenty of rumors about Brooklyn and San Antonio as possible landing spots, and I think either one would be great for him. But beyond that I don’t know who else would be reaching out and trading for him for equal/near equal value.

Anthony Chiang: I’m going to assume you’re a different Tyler and not Tyler Herro himself. Who knows where Herro will end up if the Heat trades for Damian Lillard. But it is strange how Herro’s perceived value on the trade market has been diminished throughout this process. Sure, Herro is entering the first season of a four-year extension that could be worth as much as $130 million, but that contract is going to look better in a few years when the salary cap continues to rise. He’s also just 23 years old (one year older than Heat rookie Jaime Jaquez Jr.) and has already won the NBA’s Sixth Man of the Year Award. Herro is a gifted scorer who has continued to show signs of improvement, averaging 20-plus points in each of the last two seasons. Among those drafted into the NBA since 2019, Herro is one of only six players who has averaged at least 20 points per game in the regular season at least twice during their careers. The others are Zion Williamson, LaMelo Ball, Anthony Edwards, Darius Garland and Ja Morant.

Herro will never be an elite defender, but he even displayed growth on that end of the court this past season and has been well-schooled in the Heat’s system. Is Herro a perfect player? No. Do the Trail Blazers already have a bunch of young guards on their roster? Yes. But Herro shouldn’t be portrayed as a negative asset because he’s not that. In fact, The Athletic’s Shams Charania reported this week that there are multiple teams that would trade at least one first-round pick for Herro, and even that seems a bit low for what Herro should command on the trade market.”

Expand full comment

Its the people's perception and I guess not really looking at the details of Herro's upside.

Expand full comment

yeah the math on these draft picks makes no sense. why do the Heat need 4 draft picks plus swaps plus two rookies to add Damian Lillard, but the they can barely get a single draft pick for Tyler Herro? Why is OG Ananoby worth 4 draft picks but John Collins is only worth a second round pick? If these draft picks are so valuable, trade Lowry and a first round pick for a Tyler Herro caliber player and lets move on without Dame.

Donovan Mitchell got traded for 3 first round picks and two vets and a rookie. Mitchell is 26 years old (Dame is 33) and making $30 million a year (Dame is making $50 plus).

Bradley Beal had a no-trade clause, but he got traded for Chris Paul and pick swaps. Kyrie got traded for a 3-and-D wing and a first round pick. James Harden got traded for two firsts and the ghost of Ben Simmons.

James Harden just asked to be traded again and he has literally no trade value. Russel Westbrook is on a minimum contract. Dame Lillard will be their age at the end of his current contract.

The point is, the Heat don't have to trade for Dame. They have first round picks and expiring contracts they could trade for Zach LaVine or Paskal Siakam or OG Aninoby. They have a team that's was in the Finals last year adding Tyler Herro and Jamie and Orlando and Cain and Highsmith and Jovic and Bryant and they're losing two Skyforce players.

If the Heat can get Dame without gutting their team, that's great. If not, keep Tyler, trade some expiring contracts and first round picks for upgrades around the edges, and LFG!

Expand full comment

Good points. Portland FO just trying to save face (if that's still possible) and again if I'm Pat it's just Lowry and Dunc and a first rd pick for a 33yo sniper with no D. Except for the first letter of his name lol

Expand full comment

Don't get me wrong, I love Damian Lillard. But I think you're getting 80% of the production at half the price with Tyler Herro, plus he's ten years younger. I think it's worth trading for that extra 20%, because that 20% is the difference between winning the East and winning a Title. But if you have to gut the team, you're not going to win a title, so what's the point? Riley knows this. That's why he's not giving the Blazers what they want. If the Blazers really are going to hold the line and refuse to trade Dame, then maybe this trade doesn't happen and everyone moves on.

Final point, I can remember having this EXACT conversation about Bradley Beal a couple years ago. If anyone thinks Riley will give in and overpay, they don't know Riley

Expand full comment

And the last letter of his name, don't forget.

Expand full comment

Who says he can't play defense, Damian Lillard starts and ends with D!

Expand full comment

If the Heat had to start the season with the players they have (plus a back-up PG or two) they could field a pretty good team.

Starters: Lowry, Butler, Martin, Love, Bam

Reserves: Richardson, DRobinson, ORobinson, Bryant, Jovic, Jaquez, Highsmith, Cain, Dragic (free agent/minimum), Nunn (Free agent/minimum)

Expand full comment

Going along with your scenario, I believe Herro is still a part of the team.

Expand full comment

OOPS! That changes everything. Make that:

Lowry, Herro, Butler, Martin, Bam

Richardson, DRobinson, Love, ORobinson, Bryant, Jovic, Jaquez, Highsmith, Cain, free agent (Nunn?)

Expand full comment

NBA Rumors: Heat lowball Blazers in Damian Lillard trade talks. (Fansided)

"Basically, the Heat aren’t going to offer more than they have to for Lillard. Unless another team forces their hand — or the Blazers actually threaten to keep Lillard — the Heat simply won’t put forward their best offer.

This is how every trade negotiation plays out, but given the magnitude and complexity of this particular situation, these talks could drag out for months. The Heat are the favorites to land Dame, but don’t expect the move to be announced tomorrow."

https://fansided.com/2023/07/11/nba-rumors-heat-lillard-lakers-dillon-brooks/3/

Expand full comment

I dont think so. Free agent market is on hold, trades too.

Its not just Portland or Miami, somebody will lost nerves and add another element to this trade (maybe Philly with trading Harden) or somebody else offering picks or players for this trade to move things a bit.

Expand full comment

There is no reason to bid against yourself. Until some other team actually puts a better offer on the table the Blazers are going to have to decide to take it or show up at camp with 12 guards and a pissed off Lillard.

Expand full comment

Portland is not in good position. Angry Lillard showing up can do a lot of damage, Lillard not showing up leaves the team stuck in the middle of transformation.

Expand full comment

the one advantage they have is that they stink no matter what. The motivation to make the trade is to create a better environment for their players, and based on the way they're treating Lillard, that doesn't seem like something they care about

Expand full comment

It would be foolish to trade away a lot of assets for a 33 year old small guard.

Expand full comment

Hopefully, no team gets fleeced in the process. But if one team does, it will not be Miami!

Expand full comment

From slovenian media., interview with Goran.

He said he wants to play in Miami, but he is talking with several teams.

He said, that he and other free agents are waiting for Lillard trade, but he also said, that he expect this will be solved within days!!!!!!!

So, Goran is in contact with Miami, Miami told him, that he should wait some time (within days) to get Lillard, and sign the conctract after that.

If he knows something more then us, then happy days are in front of us.

Expand full comment

Goran would be a great spare PG to have in reserve as well as a great locker room guy, mentor to young PGs and assistant coach in the future.

Expand full comment

True, but I dont think he is still capable to be a backup... we need Lillard and another guard.

Expand full comment

Not back-up. Reserve. 3rd or 4th PG/quasi-coach. Between him and Love, they would bring a lot to the table/bench/locker room.

Expand full comment

Who is a bigger Slovenian Heat loyalist, Dragic or Beno Udrih for mysteriously accepting the Heat buyout?

Expand full comment

Beno is an american now, and nobody is sad about that. In fact, its easy to forget, that he was ever a slovenian, which practically means, that he was always an american.

So no competition here, the only possible answer is Goran.

Expand full comment

From what I can tell sorting through the rumors and podcasts over the past few days...

Nobody besides the Heat is even putting together an offer. Utah, San Antonio, and Brooklyn seem like they would rather trade for Herro, who is younger, getting paid less, and would require fewer trade assets. Brilliant move by Cronin to let the entire league know they could have a younger cheaper option than Dame for a fraction of the trade price, effectively creating a cheaper alternative to the trade he wanted to make and eliminating potential trade partners.

Riley seems like he smells blood, and again just reading between the lines, it sounds like he's lowballing Cronin. The rumor mill has made it clear that the Heat can get at least 1 first round pick, maybe two in exchange for Herro. My guess is that Riley is willing to throw in a couple first round picks and Jovic but not Jaquiz or Caleb, but that is obviously just a guess. I'm guessing Lowry and Duncan are the outgoing salary, and Nurkic comes with Dame.

Cronin is playing the last card he has left, which is to say he's willing to just hold on to Dame and go into the season with his team upside down

So the Heat have two choices. They can up their offer, throw in their last pick and Jaquez and maybe Caleb or some of the Skyforce. Or they can hold out and hope the Blazers get desperate before the season starts.

Based on all of that, it seems like this trade probably won't happen until September. Cronin can get out of the spotlight once football season starts. Riley can throw in an extra pick but keep Jaquez. Cronin doesn't have any other offers and Riley doesn't have any other targets. Unless someone blinks, there is no reason for either of them to rush it

Expand full comment

Yup. Too much "I'm willing to wait until February" crap to let us know the offers aren't good. And that's from everyone, not just the Heat. The staring contest is officially on

Expand full comment

yep. when Cronin says "I'm willing to wait until February", what I'm hearing is "I'm not able to pull off a trade"

Expand full comment

Some blazer fans are burning Pat for being, well Pat Riley. We can only guess, assume what's his offer for Dame. If I'm Pat: Lowry and Dunc ++ . Take it or leave it. We just got to the finals w/out Dame and we can do it again. Thank God I'm not the godfather haha!

Expand full comment

I'm getting a lot of "cornered animal" vibes from Blazers fans. I don't understand why they don't want to just move on from Dame and start the Scoot era, but apparently a lot of them think they're going to get a all-nba big man on a rookie contract if they just hold out long enough

Expand full comment

This looks likes a good deal for everyone.

Starters: Lillard, Butler, Martin, Bam, Nurkic,

Bench: DRobinson, ORobinson, Cain, Highsmith, Love, Richardson, plus free agents/undrafted)

https://ripcityproject.com/2023/07/09/grade-trade-blazers-take-flier-ex-nba-superstar-lillard-proposal/2/

Talking about former Heat free agents... Kendrick Nunn, Goran Dragic, Derrick Jones Jr., Markieff Morris, Justise Winslow, Rodney McGruder, Chris Silva, Meyers Leonard, Moe Harkless, KZ Okpala, Dion Waiters and James Johnson. (What happened to Tyler Johnson?)

Expand full comment

Bring Back Airplane Mode!

Expand full comment

Nooooooooooo.....

Jaquez?! Jovic?! We haven't tried these guys burn tires yet...but if it happens anything less than a visit again to the finals is a bust. Well at least for me.

Lets get airplane mode and the dragon.

Expand full comment

Don’t forget about Bryant, who was a nice pickup.

I’m okay with that as long as Portland accepts Simmons, which might be a tough sell for them. However, I do think that he can succeed in the right environment. Being in Portland would allow him to relax as it wouldn’t be the pressure of a win now team like Brooklyn or Philadelphia.

Expand full comment

Oops! Robinson and Bryant on second unit could be effective.

Expand full comment

Stay with me on this, it's going to take a wide tangent but I'll get back to the point eventually.

I've been trying to look for a cheap treadmill for my home lately, and basically that means something second-hand. My local buy/sell groups have had a few up for sale, but I'd need someone with a truck to help me grab it, and I've only got a 15 year-old mid-size sedan with traction issues. The *idea* of me buying a used treadmill from one of these people is beneficial to both of us: they get rid of a treadmill (and, like, $100), and I *get* a treadmill. But there's something logistically that holds it up. I can't get a treadmill because of something that has nothing to do with treadmills or money. I don't have a truck.

I think Ben Simmons is worth another shot somewhere around the league. I think Portland is not the place where he's going to get it. The same factors that lead Dame to ask out, are going to contribute to Simmons further deterioration as a player. I don't think he has any value to Portland, in the same way that the treadmill on my buy/sell group doesn't have any value for me.

But then again, it's not like Portland is self-aware enough to figure that out. So maybe that deal works.

Expand full comment

I love being able to keep Duncan. We're going to need 3pt shooting because we can't depend on Cain and HH. I hate losing Jaquez and/or Jovic, but I get it. That deal sounds a little too good for the Blazers, though. ;)

Expand full comment

I think that if Herro is getting traded to another team for draft picks, Duncan and Lowry almost have to be the outgoing salary

Expand full comment

Maybe Dunca gets routed somewhere else. Lowry on an expiring is valuable to the Blazers so Scoot can learn from a vet for a year.

Expand full comment

Going to need a back-up PG. Nunn, Dragic, ?

Expand full comment

Looking like it right now. I don't think the Heat would put in an offer on a RFA like Dosunmu, but he intrigues me because I trust this staff to maximize guys.

Expand full comment

Cronin is stalling and delaying to hurt the Heat and Dame's chances for adding a decent supporting cast. These reports are hilarious about the Clipeprs and Celtics. They have less than the Heat with players they are willing to give up.

Expand full comment

From Frozen Rope - Inside The Jazz:

“ According to Shams Charania of The Athletic, his report details a first-round pick as a potential return for Herro. An asking price that’s not only extremely achievable for the Utah Jazz but is an opportunity they should act on expeditiously.

We know how well the Jazz are stockpiled with draft assets, specifically with first-rounders. It’s much easier said than done to draft a player of Herro’s caliber with one of those selections, so throwing a single pick into a multi-team deal to send him to Utah wouldn’t be the worst decision by any metric.

Sure, his contract does have some weight attached to it, but it’s nothing the Jazz can’t handle on their books. With a low-risk, high-reward addition of Herro, it’s the perfect opportunity to maximize the assets on hand for Danny Ainge and Co.

The hesitancy from making a deal because of the contract implications for a 23-year-old averaging 20 points a game should be borderline irrelevant. There’s clear potential and value in Herro as a player. Passing on that upside and production for such a small reported price is a hard sell.

However, the rumors involving Damian Lillard and his pending trade request from the Portland Trail Blazers seem to be lingering longer than anyone would like to see. Any movement on either Miami or Portland’s front could be weeks, even months from happening.

Therefore, the Jazz will need to stay both active and flexible through the duration of this offseason. The front office has already maintained some extremely respected improvements on the roster, but there’s even more room for growth.

With a CEO like Danny Ainge being the head of this operation, Jazz fans are in safe hands with how this roster will continue to be constructed moving forward.”

Nice to see that some outsiders appreciate Herro’s value more than some ‘insiders’.

Expand full comment

whether it's Brooklyn, Utah, or San Antonio, it seems clear that the teams with lots of draft picks to deal would rather go after 23-year old Herro for $100 million than 33-year old Lillard for $200 million

Expand full comment

That's a much better deal. Only a fool would trade significant assets for a 33 year old small guard.

Expand full comment

To a certain extent you're right, that's why the Blazers can't find a trade for Dame. On the other hand, the Heat aren't just trading for a 33 year old guard. They're trading to make the best team in the East even better. That's worth letting go of some future assets

Expand full comment

The heat aren't the best team in the east. They just got lucky to get hot at the right time. The heat aren't going to win a championship with a declining aging Damian Lillard. They won't jave enough money to out quality players around their "big 3".

Expand full comment

The Heat are the best team in the East. Since adding Jimmy Butler they've won the East twice and were one shot away from winning it a third time. Their playoff record against Boston and Milwaukie is 2-1 against each, and they are undefeated in the playoffs against Philly, Atlanta, and New York. Saying they are the best team in the East isn't an opinion, it's just an observation of a basic fact.

Expand full comment

The heat almost got eliminated in the play-in.

Expand full comment

poor yert where is he prob getting a rebound somewhere

Expand full comment

if he can't land an NBA gig, I'm sure the Skyforce will take him back

Expand full comment

Dru played terrible, I like bouyea better, but both aren't backup pg material in my opinion.

Expand full comment

Agree. At least not this year. Booya at least has a quick burst

Expand full comment

Yes and also he's a better passer and can run the team better. This is his 2nd summer league game with 9 assists. Additionally he put up 9 boards for a near triple double.

Expand full comment

They gotta have more turnovers than made FG’s.

Expand full comment

theyve been together for few weeks to be expected

Expand full comment

max so bad in almost every playoff game.dunc is not meant for modern day nba good in the 1960s

Expand full comment

Wrong thread?

Expand full comment

We have 2 Dru/ews 😆😁

Expand full comment

no dames

Expand full comment

"No Defense/One Way Dame."

Expand full comment

cain and hh play instead of max and dunc might be wearing a ring

Expand full comment

If elephants had wings they could fly.

Expand full comment

lol #AwfulTakes

Neither guy is a scorer

Expand full comment

anybody plays instead of those 2 stiffs the heat are better p

Expand full comment

I often agree with you but I can't see how you could possibly assume that. There are two aspects to a player. Good defense and not much offense is at least as bad, probably worse (worse in not being as effective and efficient), than good offense with not much defense.

Expand full comment

come on 30 highsmith and caIN overall better players than max dunc,highsmith shot better than both be it limited spobot pt.if there even offensively which they are just look at the atleticism of the two.coaches are not perfect especially spos utilization of personnel

Expand full comment

Hahaha I just can't

Expand full comment

max just missed another shot.gl cleve lol

Expand full comment

cain can score both lock u down fo sure

Expand full comment

Over the course an an entire season AND a playoff run? Lol! Maybe a few games here and there but he was not ready to contribute like Max and Duncan.

Expand full comment

how the f do u know,cain looks very good every time stubborn one puts him in.watch the pre season games when he gets shots and pt

Expand full comment

You are saying a guy who hasn't even earned a regular contract was going to be the difference in winning the title? #ClownShow

Hahahahahaha! Oh man. I have no idea why I even try to have real basketball conversations with you. Enjoy your summer

Expand full comment

prob would have lost anyway but he would have an hh would have been the better option than max or dunc

Expand full comment

21 turnovers in less than 3 quarters is kinda impressive.

Expand full comment

reading between the lines, I think it means he doesn't have anything lined up besides the Heat offer

Expand full comment

Being the new guy to this board, I just wanted to ask you guys your opinions as to when you think the Dame trade will get resolved & if he eventually will get traded to the Heat?

Thanks everyone.

Expand full comment

I think Dame will get traded to the Heat at some point in July. If we get to September and the season is coming up and no trade has happened, I wouldn't be surprised to see Pat Riley officially pull out of the trade. With or without Dame, I think the Heat are going to win the East again.

Expand full comment

I hope he gets traded to Miami but not the end of the world if he is not. Cronin deserves nothing as far as I am concerned. He does not want Herro because he has 3 players in that role. What the hell was he thinking when he went and got those guys. Now he wants 4 first round picks and 2 quality players to clean up his mess. That is, as much as asking a team to give you five future starters and their 6th man. I will say that the Heat give him nothing and let him move on.

Expand full comment

I am getting to the same point. I always could live with improving our team in a diifferent direction. The only problem is everyone else valuable will be gone. They are already picked over pretty slim. We can still make trades and I imagine that is why Riley isn't worried.

Riley is always a couple of chess moves ahead. He definitey thinks getting Dame is our best move. But, another problem is he is dealing with an idiot. Cronin just said he wouldnt mind if this drags out for months. He is preaching patience while he lets his organizations best player be disrespected. Lillard is never coming back. He has to be traded. But, this guy thinks he is being clever. I think he is going to ruin things for everyone.

Expand full comment

we need him w/o dame no shot at winning it all

Expand full comment

That's a F take. Go see the principal after class

Expand full comment

We WERE without him and came within 3 games of winning it all. Apparently, you are part of the ‘it was just a fluke’ crowd.

Expand full comment

It was no fluke, but time waits for noone. And it wont wait for Jimmy.

Expand full comment

Granted, but it’s my opinion that the Heat have improved their roster. Enough to win it all? After what they did last season, who knows? Replacing Zeller with Bryant and O Robinson is a solid upgrade. I think either could also play in tandem with Bam.

It’s not the fault of the Heat FO that the Lillard deal isn’t done. They are putting all the chips in the middle. A third or fourth team needs to be involved and that takes time and coordination.

Expand full comment

greek hurt tatum hurt 7 th game helped rc.we were not very competitive with denver and lebrons team would have beaten us.suns are loaded now.lakers are better.warriors will be healthy. bam still guarding joker need dame for the west and milwaukee

Expand full comment

All true. West got better , east not so much.

Expand full comment

We beat Bucks 4-1. Giannis was there for half that, so they should have won at least 2. Plus, they still had a bevy of really good players. We were underdogs in almost every game in the playoffs. Celtics were mostly healthy. Our depth, with Dipo and Herro out, Yurt and Jovic unable to play, and UD sitting, meant we had the shortest bench of any team. Factor in Zeller, and we were competing with 9 players.

You always try to state silly suppositions as if they were facts. Lakers would’ve beaten us?? They did worse against Denver than us!

We added 2 solid big men in O Robinson and Bryant. We’re already a better team imo. Lillard would be great to have, but we’ll be competitive whether he’s here or not. And it won’t be a fluke.

Expand full comment

Heat lost Oladipo and Herro for the playoff run, but I guess only losers get to use the injury excuse

Expand full comment

Hi! Welcome! Imo its gonna drag on 'till the start of the season, and even worse Dame goes to a different team 😭

Expand full comment

I like Jamal Cain. He reminds me of JRich. He could be a good 3 and D guy with decent size.

Highsmith also.

Expand full comment

love cain

Expand full comment

They need to pull the Dru Smith contract. Oof.

Expand full comment

let him develop got the right build for nba player to early to tell.

Expand full comment